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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 459 for the 6th of August

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2017 Richardson is here with you from

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Sydney Australia a fine example of

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winter today I think cool and crisp and

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scattered clouds I think looking out the

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window here of the studio well there's

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some sun shining maybe it's a I think

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it's gonna turn out to be a very nice

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day I'm gonna have a fun day folks I am

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later on today later on this afternoon

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I'm heading downtown Sydney to a place

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called harpoon Harry's harpoon Harry's

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where our very own Maynard will be doing

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a trivia afternoon looking forward to

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that if you're in Sydney if you're in

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Sydney and you have time

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check out harpoon Harry's around about

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three o'clock or so this afternoon for

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trivia with Maynard and I think I'll

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need a little bit of amusement a little

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bit of relaxation this afternoon after

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getting out this week's episode of the

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skeptics urn which is chock-a-block

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brimming over and a mixed bag we're

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going to start with a report the welcome

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return of our reporter Mandy lee noble

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the diet skeptic who hasn't been on the

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show for a while

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Mandy is going to talk about fluoride in

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the drinking water system here in

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Australia and some of the moves efforts

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in getting that removed but I for one

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I'm glad that there's fluoride in our

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drinking water whenever I chew my food

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teef seem to work ok hmm then following

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that it's an oldie but a goodie it's the

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eat less diet with Professor Stefan

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Sokka Steph and of course the other

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co-host of the skeptics urn who makes an

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appearance from time to time then we

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have an ongoing story a very big story

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as it's turning out and there's so much

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to this story that I'm going to add some

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even some more updates at the end of the

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episode today so stay tuned for that

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this is all about the movie VAX touring

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the country

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I think it's just about done for the

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moment but it's caused lots of

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controversy lots of news coming out

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about it but not the news the VAX people

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wanted to come out it's about the the

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deception being used when it comes to

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this movie being shown around the

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country and some of the he said she said

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he'll he said he said she said she said

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this sort of thing going on we said this

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no you didn't this happened no it didn't

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we did this it's quite a saga it really

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is but the upshot is of course this

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dreadful movie is being shown around the

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country what's probably hopefully not at

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the moment

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and of course there have been some

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videos released of interviews and so on

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from these events where the VAX movie is

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being shown some of it's quite quite

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frightening anyway we'll be covering

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some of that a little bit later on in

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the show so much to cover and so much

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late-breaking news that there is even

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more updates at the end of the show

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there in the continuing series of

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interviews with Anne Reed from the

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National Center for Science education in

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Oakland California this week and tells

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us about her work into sequencing the

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genome of the Spanish flu epidemic which

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cost millions of people their lives in

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the earlier part of last century and

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some of the science behind behind

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discovering what that flu was all about

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it's absolutely fascinating of course we

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have brouhaha science from Australia

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science TV this week Ben Lewis tells us

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about t-rex and could you outrun could

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you outrun a t-rex if you had to aye aye

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I thought I couldn't but maybe I could

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find out a bit later on then to round

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off the show it's the raw skeptic Haile

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Robinson discussing an article written

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by Jane Hansen about the real costs of a

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low vaccination rate in society

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs and have go into the cupboard

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and look to see if I still have some

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Dutch licorice left I quite like Dutch

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licorice I wonder if you're the same

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yourself this is the the stronger

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licorice I know what is Dutch licorice

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it might be known as something else in

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other parts of the world it's it's more

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salty it's quite salty I think Sweden -

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maybe this is quite salty licorice hmm

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if you're a licorice lover why don't you

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run down to your cupboard and see if you

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have some to chew on that and enjoy the

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[Music]

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that looks good enough to eat

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or does it here's the diet skeptic

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mandelino ball

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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hello skeptics and listeners mandelino

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ball here dietitian and skeptic

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reporting from Brisbane welcome back

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everyone to the diet skeptic report that

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has been quite some time since my last

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report but keen listeners may notice how

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much clearer this recording is that is

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thanks to the skeptic zone PayPal and

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patreon supporters who enabled Richard

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to purchase this wonderful new

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microphone for me so thank you everyone

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I hope this new piece of hardware leads

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to more frequent reports on the whoo and

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pseudoscience that inhabits nutrition

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now for this week's report which is one

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I've wanted to bring you for some time

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but seems even more pertinent given

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proposed changes to state legislation in

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Tasmania Kentish Council mayor Donald

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weights is calling for the decision to

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fluoridate local water supplies in

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Tasmania to be handed to local councils

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this may see Tasmania the first state in

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Australia to mandate the fluoridation of

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drinking water in 1953 follow Queensland

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in scrapping an effective Public Health

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intervention in the regional and remote

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communities that need it the most the

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World Health Organization recognizes

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that both excessive and inadequate

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intake of fluoride can have negative

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effects this is from the World Health

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Organization website public health

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actions are needed to provide sufficient

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fluoride intake in areas where this is

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lacking so as to minimize tooth decay

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this can be done through drinking water

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fluoridation

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or when this is not possible through

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salt or milk fluoridation excess fluid

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intake usually occurs through the

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consumption of groundwater naturally

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rich and flow or crops that take up

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fluoride and are irrigated with this

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water fluoridation is further supported

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by the Centers for Disease Control and

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Prevention who claim that water

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fluoridation reduces cavities in

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children and adults by 25% unless the

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fluoridation of drinking water as one of

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the ten great public health achievements

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of the United States in Australia on

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2011 government report of the rates of

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dental decay in children found a

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correlation between high rates of tooth

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decay and low socioeconomic status

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however it also found that children for

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the states and territories with the

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lowest rates of fluoridation had the

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highest rates of tooth decay

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interestingly the difference in tooth

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decay for 12 year olds in states with

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higher rates of fluoridation was less

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consistent with socioeconomic status it

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seems that we have fluoridated water

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rates of tooth decay will reduce most

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kids from low socio-economic groups in

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my own state of Queensland the

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implementation of water fluoridation has

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been far from successful in 2007 the

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then premier Anna Bly successfully

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passed legislation for mandatory water

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fluoridation some 15 years after other

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Australian states however the public

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health victory was short-lived

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in 2012 the newly elected L&P Premier

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Campbell Newman handed the decision of

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water fluoridation back to the council's

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local governments do not have the

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processes or resources or experts in

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place to make informed decisions

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regarding public health issues when

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water fluoridation comes up for review

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by councils they are inundated by

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misinformation from organised anti

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fluorite groups who often do not even

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reside in the local area since

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2012 2/3 of Queensland councils have

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opted out of water fluoridation under

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the pressure of anti fluoride lobby

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groups many of the councils that have

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stopped fluoridated drinking water are

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in regional and remote areas that may

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also have reduced access to dental

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services having investigated water

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fluoridation in Australia I found that

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there is one thing that the anti

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fluorite groups have right the benefits

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of water fluoridation diminish with

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increasing high socioeconomic status and

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access to dental services anti flora

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campaigners use this argument to

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question the necessity of water

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fluoridation ironically public health

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advocates use the same argument to

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support water fluoridation this is

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because public health advocates and

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health care workers understand that it

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is socioeconomic status and access to

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health services that are the biggest

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barriers to health care in Australia

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essentially community water fluoridation

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is an issue of social justice and health

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equity when the anti fluorite

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campaigners have it completely wrong is

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the claim that water fluoridation is

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unsafe or untested I will provide a

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quick list of responses to some of the

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Colman claims made by anti fluoride

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lobbyists from Queensland Health and the

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National Health and Medical Research

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Council of course I would love to

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completely address all the claims made

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by the anti flora campaigners however

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there are far too many and they are far

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too broad to be completely addressed at

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any one time groups who oppose

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evidence-based public health measures

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often adopt a scattergun approach

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leaving experts unable to adequately

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address every uninformed claim anyway

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here are some responses to common

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fluoride miss fluoride does not cause

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cancer scientific studies have failed to

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establish a link between water

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fluoridation and cancer cancer rates in

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the rest of Australia are not different

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to those in Queen

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where until recently few communities

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have had access to fluoridated water

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fluoride does not cause allergies

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scientific studies have failed to

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establish a link between water

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fluoridation and allergies or other

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immunological effects fluoride is an

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element already found in food and water

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fluoride does not cause arthritis no

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difference has been found in the

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incidence of arthritis in fluoridated

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and non-fluoridated communities no

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country has banned fluoride some

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countries may use salt or milk as an

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alternative to increase exposure to a

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fluoride does not cause bone fractures

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rates of bone fractures have not

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increased in communities that have

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introduced water fluoridation and water

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fluoridation has been endorsed by

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osteoporosis Australia water

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fluoridation does not cause excessive

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dental fluorosis most cirrhosis is

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barely detectable and does not damage

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teeth as a posted dental decay which is

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unsightly painful and expensive to

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repair and lastly water fluoridation is

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not mass medication water flotation

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00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:27,319
simply adjusts the amount of a substance

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00:13:33,090 --> 00:13:30,410
already found naturally in the water to

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00:13:36,429 --> 00:13:33,100
a level is beneficial to teeth

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finally skeptics own listeners if you

288
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are familiar with the work of the

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Australian vaccination skeptics network

290
00:13:46,509 --> 00:13:44,029
a cursory glance at the website or

291
00:13:49,409 --> 00:13:46,519
Facebook pages of an organised anti

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00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:49,419
fluoride group will seem very familiar

293
00:13:54,129 --> 00:13:52,160
despite being two very different health

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issues with two very different health

295
00:13:58,780 --> 00:13:56,360
interventions there are significant

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00:14:01,780 --> 00:13:58,790
similarities in the conspiracy theories

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00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:01,790
of those who impose them there's also a

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surprising crossover in the celebrities

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00:14:11,429 --> 00:14:06,499
who support both the anti vaccination

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00:14:15,489 --> 00:14:11,439
and anti fluid movements this includes

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00:14:18,189 --> 00:14:15,499
2015 bent spoon winner and celebrity

302
00:14:21,580 --> 00:14:18,199
chef Peter Evans who wrote the following

303
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:21,590
statement on social media

304
00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:23,690
I'm concerned about mass fluoridation of

305
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:26,060
public water and I strongly believe that

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00:14:30,580 --> 00:14:28,250
if people want to add fluoride to their

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00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:30,590
drinking water then they should but it

308
00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:32,960
should be a choice that each person has

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00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:35,750
the ability and right to make for their

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own household repeat if only public

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00:14:46,390 --> 00:14:42,640
health interventions weren't that easy

312
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thank you listeners until next time this

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00:15:05,530 --> 00:15:03,170
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[Music]

349
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,060
as we mentioned last week on the

350
00:16:41,170 --> 00:16:38,240
skeptics only the documentary is you

351
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:41,180
know documentary of axed from cover up

352
00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:44,720
to catastrophe I don't need to tell you

353
00:16:49,060 --> 00:16:46,280
too much about that I'm sure you're very

354
00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:49,070
well aware of that story by now about

355
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:52,040
that documentary produced by Andrew

356
00:16:59,500 --> 00:16:54,470
Wakefield mr. Andrew Wakefield

357
00:17:02,650 --> 00:16:59,510
well the VAX team as they love the call

358
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:02,660
themselves the VAX team have been in

359
00:17:09,010 --> 00:17:06,910
australia aided and abetted by the

360
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:09,020
looney tunes of the australian

361
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:11,450
vaccination skeptics network on their

362
00:17:18,490 --> 00:17:14,570
website at the moment i notice however

363
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:18,500
their main logo still says avian and in

364
00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:20,330
little writing underneath that it says

365
00:17:26,350 --> 00:17:23,060
australian vaccination skeptics network

366
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:26,360
so so i wonder what they were legally

367
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:28,450
supposed to do with their logo

368
00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:32,480
nevertheless there's a page here on

369
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:37,220
their website entitled VAX with a big

370
00:17:45,670 --> 00:17:40,730
poster from the movie which has a

371
00:17:49,030 --> 00:17:45,680
syringe faced down against a sea of

372
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:49,040
black and it seems that there's gas

373
00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:51,530
coming out of syringe makes a lot of

374
00:17:59,260 --> 00:17:55,030
sense of course and the page says about

375
00:18:03,550 --> 00:17:59,270
2017 australian VAX tour screenings are

376
00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:03,560
here the VAX team and the avian not the

377
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:07,550
avsm skeptics the VAX team and the avian

378
00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:10,250
will be touring down the east coast of

379
00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:12,980
australia from July 23rd to August 5th

380
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:16,340
2017 at every screening along the tour

381
00:18:25,030 --> 00:18:22,250
and they listed the series of names from

382
00:18:26,530 --> 00:18:25,040
the VAX team who will be there to take

383
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:26,540
questions from the audience after

384
00:18:31,450 --> 00:18:28,370
screenings chief amongst those would be

385
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:31,460
Brian Hooker and Polly Tommy it also

386
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,010
says that the VAX team will be taking

387
00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:36,640
collecting stories after the screenings

388
00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:39,950
along the road on behalf of the u.s. VAX

389
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:43,100
bus and your stories will join the

390
00:18:48,250 --> 00:18:45,770
official VAX channels now a couple of

391
00:18:51,220 --> 00:18:48,260
weeks ago dr. Rey Chi covered this issue

392
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:51,230
of the vexed bus when she interviewed

393
00:18:55,650 --> 00:18:53,690
Craig Egan who goes around the United

394
00:18:58,930 --> 00:18:55,660
States following this vast bus and

395
00:19:01,060 --> 00:18:58,940
pointing out to dr. Rey cheat at the

396
00:19:06,340 --> 00:19:01,070
stories they collect are all anecdotal

397
00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:06,350
and anybody can go along and tell them

398
00:19:11,919 --> 00:19:09,260
stories about their poor sick children

399
00:19:14,530 --> 00:19:11,929
and blame vaccinations there seems to be

400
00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:14,540
little or no vetting also on this page

401
00:19:20,770 --> 00:19:17,710
there is a list of the screenings so far

402
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:20,780
we have the Sunshine Coast Brisbane Gold

403
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:24,559
Coast New Castle Sydney Campbell town

404
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:27,470
which is near Sydney Canberra Melbourne

405
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:30,350
and Adelaide and it says down the bottom

406
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:32,570
join us along the tour for screening and

407
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:35,600
gathering story sharing political

408
00:19:41,290 --> 00:19:38,480
meetings and media interviews this is a

409
00:19:45,010 --> 00:19:41,300
not to be missed experience see I'm

410
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:45,020
sorry I missed it Henry and right down

411
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:49,370
the bottom there's a sort of questions

412
00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:54,559
QA for your education question is vac

413
00:20:01,600 --> 00:19:57,740
Stan anti vaccination documentary answer

414
00:20:04,299 --> 00:20:01,610
no well are the scientific community beg

415
00:20:07,180 --> 00:20:04,309
to differ and here is a very brief

416
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:07,190
excerpt from one of the meetings and the

417
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:10,250
voice you will hear is that of Polly

418
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:22,030
people

419
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:34,220
are unsafe they kill these doctors okay

420
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:38,650
I think that makes her position at least

421
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:42,170
very clear but I'd like to read to you

422
00:20:50,650 --> 00:20:46,450
the webpage report from ABC News

423
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:50,660
published on the 26th of July 2017 by

424
00:20:57,010 --> 00:20:53,690
Tom Forbes and I'll put a link to this

425
00:20:58,150 --> 00:20:57,020
in the show notes and this refers to the

426
00:21:00,250 --> 00:20:58,160
screening of VAX

427
00:21:03,550 --> 00:21:00,260
up in Queensland on the Gold Coast and

428
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:03,560
the headline says Gold Coast school

429
00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:05,690
tricked into allowing anti-vaccination

430
00:21:11,170 --> 00:21:08,780
film screening a Gold Coast principal

431
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:11,180
was hoodwinked into hiring out his

432
00:21:15,010 --> 00:21:13,610
school Hall for a screening of a

433
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:15,020
controversial anti-vaccination

434
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:17,930
documentary Queensland Premier Anastasia

435
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:22,010
Palecek says the film VAX from cover up

436
00:21:27,550 --> 00:21:24,710
to catastrophe was shown at Miami State

437
00:21:29,770 --> 00:21:27,560
High School on Tuesday night despite the

438
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:29,780
state government's strong stance in

439
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:32,450
supporting vaccinations quote my

440
00:21:38,740 --> 00:21:35,120
preliminary advice is that there has

441
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:38,750
been some misrepresentation to the

442
00:21:43,660 --> 00:21:41,210
school in question in quote mrs. panacek

443
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:43,670
said quote mary conveyed to the

444
00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:45,290
principal that it was to be conveying

445
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:48,020
information about organic produce in

446
00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:49,730
quote earlier this month

447
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:51,470
Health Minister Cameron dick urged

448
00:21:56,770 --> 00:21:54,410
residents to boycott the film that has

449
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:56,780
caused controversy by linking measles

450
00:22:04,570 --> 00:22:02,000
mumps rubella vaccine to autism quote we

451
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:04,580
are incredibly strong about the need for

452
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,010
people to be vaccinated especially

453
00:22:12,970 --> 00:22:09,440
children end quote mr. Palecek said

454
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:12,980
quote I don't think they were very clear

455
00:22:17,230 --> 00:22:15,440
in their purpose and I don't think they

456
00:22:20,170 --> 00:22:17,240
should have been allowed to present in

457
00:22:22,210 --> 00:22:20,180
such a manner then quote the incident is

458
00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:22,220
being investigated and the premier is

459
00:22:28,540 --> 00:22:25,190
waiting for a full briefing Gold Coast

460
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:28,550
public health physician pull and binder

461
00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:32,090
said he was aware the film was going to

462
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:34,190
be shown but the location was kept

463
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:36,050
secret until ticket buyers

464
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:37,790
received a text message with the

465
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:41,210
location late Tuesday afternoon now as

466
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:43,570
an aside from me this fits into their

467
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:47,390
overall cloak-and-dagger conspiracy

468
00:22:55,660 --> 00:22:53,600
minded approach in other words they know

469
00:23:00,010 --> 00:22:55,670
this movie's going to cause controversy

470
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:00,020
anyway but to have the attendees come

471
00:23:04,750 --> 00:23:01,910
along to the movie they don't want you

472
00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:04,760
to see by sending them text messages

473
00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:06,680
just before the showing adds to this

474
00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:09,830
conspiracy cloak-and-dagger undercover

475
00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:14,030
sort of appeal many people have to

476
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:16,900
conspiracy theories I think we continue

477
00:23:21,490 --> 00:23:19,610
quote we weren't aware that they were

478
00:23:23,980 --> 00:23:21,500
coming to a high school and we're

479
00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:23,990
incredibly disappointed as I'm sure the

480
00:23:28,930 --> 00:23:26,780
Minister will be after all the work he's

481
00:23:31,390 --> 00:23:28,940
put in to improve vaccinations in

482
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:31,400
Queensland in quote the health chief

483
00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:34,130
said the film confuses parents quote

484
00:23:38,410 --> 00:23:36,560
it's very easy to frighten a parent and

485
00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:38,420
no parent wants to do harm to their

486
00:23:44,350 --> 00:23:42,350
child in quote dr. van binder said quote

487
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:44,360
there are 25 percent of parents who are

488
00:23:48,490 --> 00:23:46,610
unsure because of all the noise about

489
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:48,500
vaccines about whether they should

490
00:23:54,130 --> 00:23:51,590
vaccinate I think the danger is this is

491
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:54,140
not for the 1.3 percent of Australians

492
00:23:58,990 --> 00:23:56,570
who are conscientious objectors end

493
00:24:02,890 --> 00:23:59,000
quote and that story comes to us by Tom

494
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:02,900
Forbes writing for the ABC News now we

495
00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:05,090
mentioned that Canberra was on the list

496
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:07,790
of locations where this movie was

497
00:24:13,390 --> 00:24:09,410
scheduled to be screened and has been

498
00:24:15,310 --> 00:24:13,400
screened and unbelievably the venue in

499
00:24:17,260 --> 00:24:15,320
Canberra was the Australian National

500
00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:17,270
University we pick up the story

501
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:20,120
published at skeptics comdataís you on

502
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:22,910
the 1st of August by Tim Mendham anti

503
00:24:28,150 --> 00:24:25,490
vaccination film screamed at Australian

504
00:24:31,330 --> 00:24:28,160
National University the Australian

505
00:24:33,340 --> 00:24:31,340
national University's science department

506
00:24:35,410 --> 00:24:33,350
has played host to a screening of the

507
00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:35,420
controversial anti vaccination film

508
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:38,780
faxed on Monday night details of how the

509
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:42,530
booking was made and not yet clear but

510
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,170
the university has stated that quote the

511
00:24:49,030 --> 00:24:47,600
event was a private booking it was not

512
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:49,040
an a a new event

513
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:51,200
it was not in any way endorsed by the

514
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:54,530
university any claim made by the hirers

515
00:25:00,370 --> 00:24:57,200
that claims a a new endorsement is false

516
00:25:03,010 --> 00:25:00,380
unquote the film was screened on campus

517
00:25:05,650 --> 00:25:03,020
at the Leonard Huxley lecture theatre

518
00:25:08,050 --> 00:25:05,660
the venue for screenings of the film are

519
00:25:10,330 --> 00:25:08,060
only given to perspective attendees a

520
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:10,340
few hours before the event the

521
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:13,490
Australian anti vaccination skeptics

522
00:25:18,370 --> 00:25:16,010
Network has uploaded videos of the event

523
00:25:20,290 --> 00:25:18,380
it can be heard at one stage on a video

524
00:25:22,150 --> 00:25:20,300
of the Q&A session following the

525
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:22,160
screening of the film that they are not

526
00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:23,450
allowed to film the audience

527
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:25,670
although interviews with attendees are

528
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:29,360
shown later former AVS n President Meryl

529
00:25:34,330 --> 00:25:31,610
Dory was the speaker at the ANU event

530
00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:34,340
alongside anti-vaxxer ponents bryan

531
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:36,500
hooker Susanne Humphries and the film

532
00:25:43,810 --> 00:25:40,370
producer Polly Tommy now I've seen some

533
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:43,820
of the the video of the VAX team going

534
00:25:52,030 --> 00:25:47,930
into the university past all the signs

535
00:25:55,710 --> 00:25:52,040
that say science it's it's galling it

536
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:55,720
really is galling and the university

537
00:26:01,120 --> 00:25:58,400
need to smarten up their act they need

538
00:26:06,460 --> 00:26:01,130
to explain this they really do to let

539
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:06,470
this group onto their campus to show

540
00:26:12,010 --> 00:26:09,050
this film is is outrageous frankly

541
00:26:13,660 --> 00:26:12,020
outrageous and I'll play now a very

542
00:26:16,270 --> 00:26:13,670
short clip of some of the advice that

543
00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:16,280
Polly Tommy was giving out afterwards

544
00:26:21,670 --> 00:26:19,340
during interaction with the audience to

545
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:21,680
a young lady who was interested in

546
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:37,019
part of the reason I did say two months

547
00:26:49,769 --> 00:26:47,770
that I wanted to yes yeah I wanted to

548
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:49,779
have that informed decision before I

549
00:26:53,850 --> 00:26:52,150
left so that I could decide whether to

550
00:26:55,529 --> 00:26:53,860
get vaccinated or not for anything

551
00:26:57,210 --> 00:26:55,539
enough they might try and pressure me

552
00:27:00,330 --> 00:26:57,220
into doing well first of all they are

553
00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:00,340
gonna pressurize you and you gonna come

554
00:27:05,850 --> 00:27:02,830
back so can we mission mission trips

555
00:27:08,639 --> 00:27:05,860
where it's 19 yards have not survived

556
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:08,649
there just a flu vaccine so please these

557
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:10,690
research that my advice is no yeah

558
00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:16,210
absolutely I mean really truly it's any

559
00:27:22,590 --> 00:27:20,260
vaccine at any age so yes not a good

560
00:27:25,019 --> 00:27:22,600
state of affairs the vexed movie being

561
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:25,029
shown up and down the east coast of

562
00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:27,610
Australia as I said aided and abetted by

563
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:29,320
the Looney Tunes at the Australian

564
00:27:35,549 --> 00:27:32,460
vaccination skeptics Network who must be

565
00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:35,559
enjoying another brief moment in the Sun

566
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,590
and although it's all but over now of

567
00:27:42,750 --> 00:27:40,559
course the fear is that many of the

568
00:27:46,220 --> 00:27:42,760
impressionable parents who went along to

569
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:46,230
this video the screening of this movie

570
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:49,570
will now maybe not vaccinate their

571
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:52,450
children or it confirm their conspiracy

572
00:27:57,330 --> 00:27:54,399
theory beliefs or they're going to try

573
00:27:59,279 --> 00:27:57,340
and persuade their their friends and

574
00:28:01,980 --> 00:27:59,289
family not to vaccinate after seeing

575
00:28:03,779 --> 00:28:01,990
this load of codswallop but again I

576
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:03,789
refer you to the interview doctor rate

577
00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:06,730
she did with Craig Egan on the skeptic

578
00:28:12,690 --> 00:28:10,870
zone number four five six the 16th of

579
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:12,700
July that's worth a listen to if you

580
00:28:16,769 --> 00:28:15,130
haven't heard that one already but we

581
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:16,779
will keep you up to date with any

582
00:28:28,020 --> 00:28:25,340
[Music]

583
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,030
stop the presses hold the rolls here is

584
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:30,720
some late-breaking news on this story

585
00:28:36,990 --> 00:28:34,390
since I recorded the the pieces you just

586
00:28:39,570 --> 00:28:37,000
heard more controversy has followed the

587
00:28:42,090 --> 00:28:39,580
Baxter movie it's been shown at the

588
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:42,100
Crown Casino in Melbourne well maybe

589
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:43,570
that's appropriate if people want to

590
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:45,970
gamble with their children's health but

591
00:28:50,610 --> 00:28:47,650
more importantly maybe there's a

592
00:28:54,090 --> 00:28:50,620
statement has just come out from the

593
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:54,100
parents of Riley Hughes the baby who

594
00:29:00,420 --> 00:28:57,310
died in 2015 at only 32 days old

595
00:29:03,270 --> 00:29:00,430
from whooping cough and since then they

596
00:29:06,270 --> 00:29:03,280
have served the foundation light for

597
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,280
Riley which won the 2015 Australian

598
00:29:11,730 --> 00:29:09,520
skeptics Fred Thor net award for the

599
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:11,740
promotion of Reason in a statement

600
00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:14,610
released from light for Riley

601
00:29:21,470 --> 00:29:17,140
anti-vaccination tour of Australia

602
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:21,480
prompts the donation of over 50,000

603
00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:23,710
vaccines to children in developing

604
00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:26,860
countries last Sunday we donated

605
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:29,920
vaccines on behalf of a group of anti

606
00:29:35,370 --> 00:29:32,320
vaccination activists who arrived in

607
00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:35,380
Australia keen to spread their fear and

608
00:29:40,410 --> 00:29:37,960
misinformation to vulnerable parents we

609
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:40,420
have been blown away by the huge number

610
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:43,090
of people who have echoed our sentiment

611
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:45,730
and made similar donations of vaccines

612
00:29:52,110 --> 00:29:48,910
to UNICEF Australia with their tour

613
00:29:54,540 --> 00:29:52,120
almost over these activists can leave

614
00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:54,550
this weekend knowing their decision to

615
00:30:00,180 --> 00:29:56,800
come to Australia has meant that more

616
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,190
than 50,000 children will now be

617
00:30:04,430 --> 00:30:02,320
protected from serious preventable

618
00:30:06,810 --> 00:30:04,440
diseases like measles and polio

619
00:30:09,030 --> 00:30:06,820
thousands and thousands and thousands of

620
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:09,040
kids in developing countries will now be

621
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:12,250
vaccinated just brilliant parents

622
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:14,410
deserve good information about the risks

623
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:17,110
and benefits of vaccines and the

624
00:30:24,150 --> 00:30:19,870
information presented by these activists

625
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:24,160
is discredited misleading and a danger

626
00:30:30,090 --> 00:30:26,650
to public health we have statements such

627
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:30,100
as quote vaccines kill end quote end

628
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:30,720
quote

629
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:33,890
doctors are murdering our children and

630
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:37,010
quote anti-vaccination messages can

631
00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:39,590
truly cost lives what you have helped us

632
00:30:46,990 --> 00:30:42,470
to achieve is a huge win for public

633
00:30:49,210 --> 00:30:47,000
health Thank You vac steam if you ever

634
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:49,220
decide to tour our country again just

635
00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:50,930
know you will be indirectly responsible

636
00:30:58,270 --> 00:30:53,320
for the donation of thousands and

637
00:31:23,200 --> 00:30:58,280
thousands more vaccines signed Riley's

638
00:31:24,610 --> 00:31:23,210
mum and dad astronomy cast who takes a

639
00:31:26,740 --> 00:31:24,620
facts based journey through the cosmos

640
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:26,750
as it offers listeners a weekly

641
00:31:32,050 --> 00:31:28,730
discussions on astronomical topics

642
00:31:34,180 --> 00:31:32,060
ranging from planets to cosmology hosted

643
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,190
by Fraser Cain of Universe Today and

644
00:31:38,350 --> 00:31:36,080
myself dr. Pamela gay of Southern

645
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:38,360
Illinois University Edwardsville this

646
00:31:41,950 --> 00:31:40,190
show brings the questions of an avid

647
00:31:44,650 --> 00:31:41,960
astronomy lover directly to an

648
00:31:46,390 --> 00:31:44,660
astronomer together Fraser and I explore

649
00:31:49,270 --> 00:31:46,400
what is known and being discovered about

650
00:31:51,070 --> 00:31:49,280
the universe around us join us each week

651
00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:51,080
as we take a FAC space journey through

652
00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:53,640
the cosmos at astronomy cast calm

653
00:32:04,270 --> 00:31:54,070
[Laughter]

654
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,740
now we bring you part three of our

655
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:09,600
series of interviews with and read the

656
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,250
director of the National Center for

657
00:32:15,740 --> 00:32:13,200
Science education based in Oakland

658
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:15,750
California this week and will tell us

659
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:17,850
about her work into sequencing the

660
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,040
genetic code of the 1918 Spanish flu

661
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:25,440
epidemic this epidemic killed millions

662
00:32:37,710 --> 00:32:34,010
climate change we think of permafrost

663
00:32:39,630 --> 00:32:37,720
and the evolution we think of what's on

664
00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:39,640
the wall up there and I mentioned the

665
00:32:46,670 --> 00:32:43,150
permafrost because it is relevant to the

666
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:46,680
complete coding sequence of the 1980

667
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,990
1918 influenza virus you have it on your

668
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:52,000
wall mm-hmm and just real listeners

669
00:32:57,150 --> 00:32:53,770
because it's such a fascinating story

670
00:32:58,410 --> 00:32:57,160
so back when I was a working scientist I

671
00:33:01,680 --> 00:32:58,420
worked at a place called the Armed

672
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:01,690
Forces Institute of Pathology that has

673
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:03,850
an archive of tissue samples going back

674
00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:07,090
to the Civil War and my job was to

675
00:33:13,230 --> 00:33:09,670
figure out how to do molecular biology

676
00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:13,240
on those old tissue samples and one of

677
00:33:17,790 --> 00:33:15,100
the things that we worked on was the

678
00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:17,800
1918 flu which killed somewhere between

679
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:20,200
20 and 50 million people worldwide which

680
00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:22,990
a lot of people don't know about yeah I

681
00:33:26,610 --> 00:33:24,910
think more people know about it now it's

682
00:33:28,890 --> 00:33:26,620
gotten a lot more coverage in the last

683
00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:28,900
ten years or so but for many years it

684
00:33:32,790 --> 00:33:30,670
was forgotten I mean it did happen in

685
00:33:34,860 --> 00:33:32,800
the middle of World War one and a lot of

686
00:33:36,570 --> 00:33:34,870
yes or at the end of World War one a lot

687
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:36,580
of other things were going on it's also

688
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:38,530
known as the Spanish flu yes you've

689
00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:40,030
heard that referred to is that right yes

690
00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:42,940
yes and the reason for that is that when

691
00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:45,070
it broke out in Europe most European

692
00:33:51,690 --> 00:33:48,790
countries had very strict press controls

693
00:33:54,510 --> 00:33:51,700
to try to have good news in their

694
00:33:57,510 --> 00:33:54,520
communities so they because to keep the

695
00:33:59,880 --> 00:33:57,520
keep morale up during the war and so

696
00:34:02,730 --> 00:33:59,890
they didn't allow the press to talk

697
00:34:05,070 --> 00:34:02,740
about the flu and X but Spain didn't

698
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:05,080
have a didn't have a press embargo so

699
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:06,640
they did talk about it and they ended up

700
00:34:11,820 --> 00:34:08,649
getting you know well I'm never getting

701
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:11,830
the name tag Don yeah yeah that's why

702
00:34:14,669 --> 00:34:13,030
it's called the Spanish flu it didn't

703
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:14,679
originate in Spain it wasn't worse in

704
00:34:20,669 --> 00:34:17,649
Spain than anywhere else it just was in

705
00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:20,679
the news there okay anyway yeah we

706
00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:23,110
decided to see if we could get the

707
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:25,030
genetic sequence of the virus from these

708
00:34:30,930 --> 00:34:28,480
tissue samples there were about 77 or 78

709
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:30,940
samples from US soldiers who died of the

710
00:34:37,399 --> 00:34:36,130
flu in 1918 and in 1918 viruses were not

711
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:37,409
yet culturable

712
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:40,510
so no samples of the virus

713
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:44,320
preserved in laboratories but we hoped

714
00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:46,210
that the sequence of the virus that the

715
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:47,830
genetic material of the virus would

716
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:49,210
still be in the lungs of some of the

717
00:34:55,110 --> 00:34:52,450
soldiers who died of the flu so it took

718
00:34:57,870 --> 00:34:55,120
us seven years and we actually got most

719
00:35:01,080 --> 00:34:57,880
of the sequence from an Inuit Alaskan

720
00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:01,090
woman who died of the flu and was buried

721
00:35:09,150 --> 00:35:04,390
in permafrost and so her lungs had been

722
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:09,160
preserved and yeah it's it's quite a

723
00:35:14,430 --> 00:35:11,710
story we were contacted by a man who had

724
00:35:17,070 --> 00:35:14,440
who had exhumed these bodies back in

725
00:35:19,050 --> 00:35:17,080
1953 after our first favorite paper was

726
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:19,060
published he offered to go back up and

727
00:35:23,580 --> 00:35:20,710
exhume the bodies again and send us more

728
00:35:25,770 --> 00:35:23,590
tissue which we accepted and when he

729
00:35:27,660 --> 00:35:25,780
went up and opened the gravesite again

730
00:35:29,730 --> 00:35:27,670
there was only one body that was not

731
00:35:32,220 --> 00:35:29,740
decomposed whereas there had been I

732
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:32,230
can't remember how many victims there

733
00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:34,180
were in Brevig mission I think it was on

734
00:35:40,050 --> 00:35:37,120
the order of 85 they were all decomposed

735
00:35:43,590 --> 00:35:40,060
the permafrost had started to freeze and

736
00:35:45,630 --> 00:35:43,600
thaw it wasn't perma anymore and the

737
00:35:48,750 --> 00:35:45,640
woman the one body that was still intact

738
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:48,760
was a very obese woman and the Fatheads

739
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:52,210
had insulated her longest felicitous

740
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:54,370
whoo-hoo especially in Australia who

741
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:56,050
don't have a deal with permafrost this

742
00:36:00,510 --> 00:35:58,240
is a region of the world where the

743
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:00,520
ground is essentially frozen because

744
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,240
it's far enough north before the effects

745
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:06,880
of the Sun never quite to thaw the ice

746
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,150
in the ground but we hear stories of the

747
00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:12,400
permafrost is now being directly

748
00:36:17,370 --> 00:36:15,310
affected by a global line yeah yeah so

749
00:36:20,430 --> 00:36:17,380
even back in 2000 there were signs that

750
00:36:24,030 --> 00:36:20,440
the fraud that this area was not staying

751
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:24,040
frozen 365 days a year year after year

752
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:26,170
after year that there had been thaw yeah

753
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:27,280
cycles and that may have had something

754
00:36:31,020 --> 00:36:28,870
to do with it having been opened before

755
00:36:33,210 --> 00:36:31,030
I don't think you know that the grave

756
00:36:37,350 --> 00:36:33,220
had been opened before it was um after

757
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:37,360
the war after that flu that the US Army

758
00:36:44,970 --> 00:36:42,130
came in to Alaska and helped bury all of

759
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,980
the dead it was devastating in the in

760
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:46,960
the villages that got - it was

761
00:36:52,530 --> 00:36:49,660
devastating and Alaska was not yet a US

762
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:52,540
state didn't become a state until 1959

763
00:36:58,650 --> 00:36:54,490
right but the army did come in

764
00:37:01,890 --> 00:36:58,660
and bulldoze these mass graves that are

765
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:01,900
found in in villages all over including

766
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:03,760
Brevig mission where our sample was

767
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:05,680
found and it's a it's fascinating you

768
00:37:11,460 --> 00:37:08,410
gaze up on to the world there's a lovely

769
00:37:14,070 --> 00:37:11,470
picture of the genetic sequence but it

770
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:14,080
was quickly evolving yes and flu is

771
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:15,810
always quickly evolving that's its

772
00:37:23,370 --> 00:37:20,110
survival strategy that it its gene

773
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:23,380
copying machinery is quite inaccurate

774
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:27,910
and so every time it makes lots of

775
00:37:33,780 --> 00:37:31,330
mistakes and and it doesn't I mean it's

776
00:37:38,190 --> 00:37:33,790
a virus so it doesn't have emotions but

777
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:38,200
it doesn't care if you know some large

778
00:37:44,010 --> 00:37:40,450
number of the particles viral particles

779
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:44,020
that are formed or aren't complete or if

780
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:45,670
they have a mutation that means that

781
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:47,490
they won't be able to infect the next

782
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:52,690
yeah it's you know if it has one that's

783
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:55,119
that's good then it can get into a cell

784
00:38:02,040 --> 00:37:58,090
and it can reproduce and and it can keep

785
00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:02,050
the virus spreading yeah so that's why

786
00:38:07,890 --> 00:38:04,270
you saying before every year there is a

787
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:07,900
different strain a year there's a

788
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:09,490
slightly different vaccine because it

789
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:11,440
evolves right that the Selective

790
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:12,910
pressure on that the evolutionary

791
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:15,040
Selective pressure on it is for the the

792
00:38:19,620 --> 00:38:17,770
bits of the virus that stick up are the

793
00:38:22,410 --> 00:38:19,630
parts of the virus that the immune

794
00:38:24,359 --> 00:38:22,420
system sees and so the immune system

795
00:38:28,890 --> 00:38:24,369
makes antibodies that are very very

796
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:28,900
specific to those spikes on that on the

797
00:38:33,210 --> 00:38:30,910
surface of the virus so if the virus

798
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:33,220
happens to get a mutation that changes

799
00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:36,810
the shape of that spike slightly then

800
00:38:42,330 --> 00:38:40,630
that particular viral particle can

801
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:42,340
infect somebody who is infected by the

802
00:38:47,730 --> 00:38:45,609
previous Wow virus because that if the

803
00:38:50,070 --> 00:38:47,740
antibodies are not gonna be as good a

804
00:38:52,140 --> 00:38:50,080
match yeah yeah so those are the ones

805
00:38:54,090 --> 00:38:52,150
that survive yeah and those are the ones

806
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,100
then that you get the next year and so

807
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,040
they're constantly monitoring the virus

808
00:39:01,590 --> 00:38:59,920
over the course of the offseason to see

809
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:01,600
what changes are emerging and then they

810
00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:03,250
change they make a decision and I

811
00:39:07,650 --> 00:39:06,790
believe it's February what strain

812
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:07,660
they're going to put in the

813
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,630
next year's vaccine based on what's

814
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:12,400
emerging so they may keep the old one if

815
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,770
it looks like a new one hasn't really

816
00:39:18,809 --> 00:39:16,960
caught hold but if what if it looks like

817
00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:18,819
a new strain has emerged that is

818
00:39:22,349 --> 00:39:20,200
different enough from the old one that

819
00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:22,359
people's immunity isn't working then

820
00:39:25,710 --> 00:39:24,520
they put that strain into the vaccine

821
00:39:28,859 --> 00:39:25,720
for the next year so it's a very

822
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:28,869
imperfect science well it is but it's

823
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:30,609
certainly developing but from the the

824
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:33,760
virus's point of view it's it behooves

825
00:39:39,930 --> 00:39:37,210
it to have a poor mechanism exactly yeah

826
00:39:42,029 --> 00:39:39,940
and so what we found what the 1918 flu

827
00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:42,039
is those there's about I can't remember

828
00:39:45,420 --> 00:39:43,630
it's been a long time since I was really

829
00:39:48,930 --> 00:39:45,430
deep in the literature I think they're

830
00:39:51,539 --> 00:39:48,940
about 20 amino acids that are on the

831
00:39:54,839 --> 00:39:51,549
surface of that spike that sticks out

832
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:54,849
from the surface of the virus and that

833
00:40:00,420 --> 00:39:58,450
the sort of home species for for

834
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:00,430
influenza viruses as wild birds ducks

835
00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:03,130
and geese and it circulates in ducks and

836
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:04,900
geese and it doesn't really make them

837
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:07,359
sick it's they're very well adapted to

838
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:10,089
ducks and geese and so those those amino

839
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:12,250
acids don't change because there's not

840
00:40:17,819 --> 00:40:13,750
really big immune pressure on the virus

841
00:40:19,470 --> 00:40:17,829
so those if you look at those twenty

842
00:40:21,359 --> 00:40:19,480
amino acids you can make a very good

843
00:40:23,339 --> 00:40:21,369
guess as to where this virus came from

844
00:40:25,410 --> 00:40:23,349
did it come from birds did it come from

845
00:40:26,970 --> 00:40:25,420
pigs where there is immune pressure on

846
00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:26,980
the virus to or from humans

847
00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:29,710
swine flu swine flu yeah yeah swine's

848
00:40:34,529 --> 00:40:32,049
can be infected by both avian strains

849
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:34,539
and human strains so for many years they

850
00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:36,010
were thought to be the mixing vessel

851
00:40:41,220 --> 00:40:38,740
where you get new varieties of flu

852
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:41,230
developing and there's some evidence

853
00:40:44,460 --> 00:40:42,490
that that's true but there's also

854
00:40:47,789 --> 00:40:44,470
evidence that it can happen just in

855
00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:47,799
humans hmm anyway the 1918 flu those 20

856
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:50,950
amino acids were all the avian strain

857
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:53,710
which they all matched sort of typical

858
00:40:58,289 --> 00:40:55,450
avian viruses so that suggests that had

859
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:58,299
never circulated in humans before and

860
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:01,440
maybe that's why it was so right

861
00:41:07,140 --> 00:41:04,690
ridiculously muralists not the word

862
00:41:10,289 --> 00:41:07,150
contagious contagious that nobody had

863
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:10,299
any immunity to it at all yeah and just

864
00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:13,839
to wrap up this talk about the flu I've

865
00:41:17,490 --> 00:41:15,400
had the flu you've had the flu though of

866
00:41:19,470 --> 00:41:17,500
the years it's around Pleasant it's not

867
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:19,480
a cold it's a down thing you feel

868
00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:20,760
dreadful you wiped out

869
00:41:28,910 --> 00:41:25,380
for a week or more and more really how

870
00:41:31,610 --> 00:41:28,920
does it actually kill people and why did

871
00:41:34,250 --> 00:41:31,620
were so many people killed by it back

872
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:34,260
then I mean why didn't they just get the

873
00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:35,850
flu and feel dreadful for a couple of

874
00:41:39,830 --> 00:41:37,590
weeks and recover the vast majority of

875
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:39,840
them did did they yeah Ryan that it

876
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:43,110
killed some it depends the numbers are

877
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:45,210
not perfect but about two percent of the

878
00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:49,250
people who were symptomatic died uh

879
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:51,300
generally about thirty percent of people

880
00:41:55,850 --> 00:41:53,130
who get the flu don't even have any

881
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:55,860
symptoms really about 70 percent of

882
00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:57,570
symptoms and those can vary from a very

883
00:42:03,470 --> 00:42:00,900
mild flu to what you're describing this

884
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:03,480
kind of really miserable for a couple of

885
00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:07,710
weeks to dying most of the people who

886
00:42:13,820 --> 00:42:10,440
died didn't die directly of the virus

887
00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:13,830
they died of a bacterial pneumonia the

888
00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:15,990
virus comes in in it and then it infects

889
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:18,600
the epithelium cells that line your

890
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:22,170
respiratory tract and it kills them and

891
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:25,140
so it leaves your respiratory tract

892
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:28,800
really vulnerable to bacterial infection

893
00:42:33,050 --> 00:42:29,460
all right

894
00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:33,060
so something like ninety probably more

895
00:42:36,740 --> 00:42:34,830
probably 95 percent of people who died

896
00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:36,750
in 1918 actually died of a bacterial

897
00:42:41,570 --> 00:42:38,760
pneumonia but about five percent of

898
00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:41,580
people got this very they call it

899
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:45,270
fulminant viral pneumonia where instead

900
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:47,250
of just killing the epithelium in your

901
00:42:53,650 --> 00:42:50,310
in the nasal passages it got deep into

902
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:53,660
the lungs that it denuded the

903
00:42:59,840 --> 00:42:56,880
capillaries in the base of the lungs the

904
00:43:01,100 --> 00:42:59,850
lungs flooded with liquid and basically

905
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:01,110
the victims drowned

906
00:43:08,810 --> 00:43:06,510
it was very Wow violent rapid death the

907
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,820
victims turned a color they called

908
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:11,280
heliotrope it's like a lavender blue

909
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:13,290
color they called it heliotrope cyanosis

910
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:16,290
this was super fascinating about doing

911
00:43:20,030 --> 00:43:18,090
that study as we had to go back and read

912
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:20,040
all of the studies about what was going

913
00:43:23,420 --> 00:43:21,930
on what can we learn from what they saw

914
00:43:25,370 --> 00:43:23,430
clinically what can we learn from what

915
00:43:28,130 --> 00:43:25,380
they saw epidemiologically in different

916
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:28,140
towns anyway it was anyway some number

917
00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:30,480
of people died of this primary viral

918
00:43:33,830 --> 00:43:30,990
pneumonia

919
00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:33,840
and fortunately for us a couple of the

920
00:43:38,109 --> 00:43:36,060
cases in those archives at the AFIP

921
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:38,119
were from people who died of the primary

922
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,810
pneumonia because otherwise we would

923
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:41,520
never have gotten any sense of the virus

924
00:43:46,850 --> 00:43:44,940
okay yeah it's very what a fascinating

925
00:43:48,859 --> 00:43:46,860
story it was it was a new just a

926
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:48,869
privilege to work on it Wow

927
00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:50,250
well and it's so it's been so

928
00:43:54,020 --> 00:43:52,200
fascinating I love coming back here I

929
00:43:55,820 --> 00:43:54,030
don't care where your office is it could

930
00:43:57,950 --> 00:43:55,830
be anywhere in the world it's it's a

931
00:43:59,210 --> 00:43:57,960
wonderful thing to be in the office of

932
00:44:01,520 --> 00:43:59,220
the National Center of Science education

933
00:44:05,570 --> 00:44:01,530
how can people find out more where can

934
00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:05,580
the NCSE calm on the web we have lots of

935
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:07,740
information there and of course if you

936
00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:08,610
become a member

937
00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:11,400
hmm you can get our newsletter every

938
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:13,619
three months and the newsletter now

939
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,330
really focuses on what are we doing for

940
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:17,280
teachers or how are our booster clubs

941
00:44:21,620 --> 00:44:19,410
doing what kinds of flare-ups have we

942
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:21,630
dealt with and and what's been the

943
00:44:26,510 --> 00:44:25,110
outcome of these legislation and across

944
00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:26,520
the United States and sometimes around

945
00:44:33,350 --> 00:44:28,740
the world so it that the newsletter is

946
00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:33,360
is a great way to keep up to date with

947
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:35,700
what we're doing and then of course the

948
00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:38,400
website is very rich yeah well I think

949
00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:40,440
it's applicable for science teachers no

950
00:44:44,060 --> 00:44:42,150
matter where you are from Australia to

951
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:44,070
the United States to to everywhere

952
00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:46,200
mm-hmm I think any science teacher would

953
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:48,180
do well to visit your site once again

954
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:50,910
and pleasure to be here thank you it's

955
00:44:59,740 --> 00:44:56,849
[Music]

956
00:45:02,109 --> 00:44:59,750
join us next week for the final in our

957
00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:02,119
series of interviews with talks van Reed

958
00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:05,060
where and we'll discuss the community

959
00:45:08,820 --> 00:45:06,950
outreach of the National Center for

960
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:08,830
Science education

961
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:22,530
[Music]

962
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:25,450
and now direct from the cafe and

963
00:45:30,990 --> 00:45:28,330
Australia's Science Channel its brouhaha

964
00:45:39,330 --> 00:45:31,000
science in less time than it takes to

965
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:39,340
order a coffee with Ben Lewis if pop

966
00:45:43,650 --> 00:45:41,410
culture told me one thing is the

967
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:43,660
Tyrannosaurus Rex was a fast runner that

968
00:45:47,730 --> 00:45:45,280
could easily chase down humans in

969
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:47,740
Sprint's off but like so much my

970
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:50,710
childhood pop culture was wrong because

971
00:45:55,890 --> 00:45:52,720
it turns out the t-rex was nowhere near

972
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:55,900
as fast as we've been told by simulating

973
00:45:59,280 --> 00:45:57,450
the scales in the movement of a t-rex

974
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:59,290
researchers have discovered that the

975
00:46:03,330 --> 00:46:00,880
quickest that could have moved was a

976
00:46:05,610 --> 00:46:03,340
fast walk topping out at about 20

977
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:05,620
kilometres an hour if it had tried to

978
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:07,660
run the forces through us leg bones

979
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:09,310
would have been too much and they would

980
00:46:14,340 --> 00:46:11,650
have snap so less like a menacing run

981
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:14,350
more like a power walk but that's okay

982
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:16,450
because t-rex didn't need to be a quick

983
00:46:20,820 --> 00:46:18,370
runner they just needed to be quicker

984
00:46:22,590 --> 00:46:20,830
than their prey and 20 kilometres an

985
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:22,600
hour is still pretty quick by human

986
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:24,610
standards it's about the same speed that

987
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:26,710
most people can sprint so you need to be

988
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:29,380
on your game to get away from one so if

989
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:31,210
you do find yourself being chased by a

990
00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:34,210
t-rex forget run out runner just jump

991
00:47:02,840 --> 00:46:40,590
for more brouhaha and Australian science

992
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:02,850
visit www.secretgarden.eu.com

993
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:30,980
[Music]

994
00:47:37,230 --> 00:47:35,040
preventable diseases Jane Hansen from

995
00:47:40,190 --> 00:47:37,240
The Daily Telegraph wrote an article

996
00:47:42,810 --> 00:47:40,200
which appeared online on July the 23rd

997
00:47:45,660 --> 00:47:42,820
2017 titled

998
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:45,670
patients lacking vaccination spend on

999
00:47:53,460 --> 00:47:50,250
average nearly a week in hospital quote

1000
00:47:55,950 --> 00:47:53,470
anti faxes and vaccinations slackers

1001
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:55,960
suffering from preventable diseases are

1002
00:48:00,420 --> 00:47:57,850
clogging Australia's hospitals and

1003
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:00,430
putting a massive burden on the public

1004
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:03,400
health purse people with vaccine

1005
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:06,010
preventable diseases spent a total of

1006
00:48:09,660 --> 00:48:07,810
three hundred and thirty eight thousand

1007
00:48:12,930 --> 00:48:09,670
six hundred and eighty six days in

1008
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:12,940
hospital across the nation in 2015 to

1009
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:17,890
2016 new figures reveal and in New South

1010
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:20,530
Wales three of the top four areas where

1011
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:22,330
preventable diseases put people in

1012
00:48:27,090 --> 00:48:24,400
hospital we're in northern New South

1013
00:48:31,230 --> 00:48:27,100
Wales communities where vaccination

1014
00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:31,240
rates are notoriously low the average

1015
00:48:36,090 --> 00:48:33,220
length of stay in hospital for a vaccine

1016
00:48:38,610 --> 00:48:36,100
preventable disease was six point seven

1017
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:38,620
days per patient according to the

1018
00:48:43,530 --> 00:48:40,690
Australian Institute of Health and

1019
00:48:45,150 --> 00:48:43,540
Welfare new healthy communities report

1020
00:48:50,820 --> 00:48:45,160
in to potentially preventable

1021
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:50,830
hospitalizations in 2015 to 2016 New

1022
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:51,530
South Wales

1023
00:48:56,670 --> 00:48:53,510
health figures estimate the average stay

1024
00:49:01,660 --> 00:48:56,680
in hospital for one night is between

1025
00:49:04,180 --> 00:49:01,670
$1,100 and $1,500 making the impulse on

1026
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:04,190
the public purse for vaccine preventable

1027
00:49:09,090 --> 00:49:06,410
diseases up to five hundred and eight

1028
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:09,100
million dollars a year

1029
00:49:15,220 --> 00:49:12,170
Liz Moore pediatrician dr. Kris Engel

1030
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:15,230
said he has seen firsthand the impact of

1031
00:49:19,090 --> 00:49:17,330
vaccine preventable diseases in children

1032
00:49:22,690 --> 00:49:19,100
who had not been vaccinated in the

1033
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:22,700
region this data reflects other data

1034
00:49:26,740 --> 00:49:24,800
from earlier decades in countries like

1035
00:49:29,410 --> 00:49:26,750
Japan who stopped vaccinating for

1036
00:49:32,140 --> 00:49:29,420
certain diseases and then thought there

1037
00:49:34,330 --> 00:49:32,150
was a spike in infectious diseases so it

1038
00:49:36,460 --> 00:49:34,340
is expected giving the low rates of

1039
00:49:40,750 --> 00:49:36,470
vaccination in northern New South Wales

1040
00:49:42,610 --> 00:49:40,760
dr. Engel said earlier this year the

1041
00:49:45,340 --> 00:49:42,620
rate of whooping cough in northern New

1042
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:45,350
South Wales health district was 9 times

1043
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:47,630
that of the neighboring Mid North Coast

1044
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:51,110
health district we certainly see

1045
00:49:56,410 --> 00:49:54,110
pertussis whooping cough and babies that

1046
00:49:58,780 --> 00:49:56,420
need to be hospitalized but we've also

1047
00:50:03,130 --> 00:49:58,790
seen tetanus in an unvaccinated child

1048
00:50:04,930 --> 00:50:03,140
dr. Engel said Marcus Bernardo was

1049
00:50:07,540 --> 00:50:04,940
hospitalized for whooping cough in

1050
00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:07,550
February at the tender age of 14 months

1051
00:50:12,550 --> 00:50:10,280
four months shy of his third booster

1052
00:50:16,030 --> 00:50:12,560
shot for the Killa cough which severely

1053
00:50:18,580 --> 00:50:16,040
affects the young it got really bad and

1054
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:18,590
they kept him in isolation he was very

1055
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:21,260
distressed mum Sandra Bernardo from

1056
00:50:25,780 --> 00:50:23,930
riedel mare said whooping cough is one

1057
00:50:28,060 --> 00:50:25,790
of the hardest diseases to control by

1058
00:50:30,670 --> 00:50:28,070
vaccination and relies on herd immunity

1059
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:30,680
of more than 90 percent to reduce the

1060
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:34,010
disease spread dr. Rachel heap is an

1061
00:50:39,250 --> 00:50:37,130
adult intensive care specialist who also

1062
00:50:41,020 --> 00:50:39,260
works in the region and is a spokeswoman

1063
00:50:43,390 --> 00:50:41,030
for the Northern Rivers vaccine

1064
00:50:45,790 --> 00:50:43,400
supporters group I'm saddened by the

1065
00:50:48,010 --> 00:50:45,800
figures but unfortunately I'm not

1066
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:48,020
surprised because we have some of the

1067
00:50:53,590 --> 00:50:50,810
lowest vaccination rates so we have the

1068
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:53,600
highest number of hospitalizations each

1069
00:50:57,700 --> 00:50:56,240
week I see people in intensive care with

1070
00:51:01,450 --> 00:50:57,710
diseases that could have been prevented

1071
00:51:03,790 --> 00:51:01,460
by vaccination like influenza we see

1072
00:51:05,050 --> 00:51:03,800
otherwise healthy people in ICU with

1073
00:51:09,460 --> 00:51:05,060
influenza and

1074
00:51:12,550 --> 00:51:09,470
some don't survive doctor heap said last

1075
00:51:15,340 --> 00:51:12,560
year the child death review team found

1076
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:15,350
that a total of 54 children had died of

1077
00:51:20,860 --> 00:51:17,330
vaccine preventable diseases in New

1078
00:51:23,530 --> 00:51:20,870
South Wales in the past decade dr.

1079
00:51:25,690 --> 00:51:23,540
Christine McCartney deputy director of

1080
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:25,700
the National Center for immunization and

1081
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:28,610
research surveillance said of the 54

1082
00:51:33,310 --> 00:51:31,130
children who died almost half were

1083
00:51:36,310 --> 00:51:33,320
considered preventable if vaccinations

1084
00:51:39,370 --> 00:51:36,320
had been kept up-to-date if you'd like

1085
00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:39,380
to see the data for your area go to my

1086
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:42,950
healthy communities gov dot a U on the

1087
00:51:47,950 --> 00:51:45,680
home page there is a link for

1088
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:47,960
interactive data for potentially

1089
00:51:54,310 --> 00:51:49,850
preventable hospitalizations in

1090
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:54,320
Australia that's it for me for this week

1091
00:51:59,140 --> 00:51:57,290
until next time this is Heidi Robertson

1092
00:52:17,080 --> 00:51:59,150
from the Northern Rivers vaccination

1093
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:17,090
supporters signing off from the dawn of

1094
00:52:22,930 --> 00:52:20,210
time one podcast has unlocked the

1095
00:52:25,330 --> 00:52:22,940
secrets of science and technology to

1096
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:25,340
enrich the lives of billions and now

1097
00:52:30,130 --> 00:52:27,530
after a year where they've unlocked the

1098
00:52:32,830 --> 00:52:30,140
golden age of knowledge they're about to

1099
00:52:35,830 --> 00:52:32,840
hit warp speed and go stratospheric

1100
00:52:37,690 --> 00:52:35,840
holed up on oh no Ross and Carrie we

1101
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:37,700
don't make extraordinary claims we

1102
00:52:42,070 --> 00:52:39,920
investigate them we go undercover with

1103
00:52:44,170 --> 00:52:42,080
fringe religious groups investigate

1104
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:44,180
paranormal claims and we participate in

1105
00:52:48,670 --> 00:52:46,130
pseudo scientific medical treatments and

1106
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:48,680
then report our findings to you and yes

1107
00:52:55,780 --> 00:52:52,730
we've even investigated Scientology new

1108
00:52:58,990 --> 00:52:55,790
episodes every month at maximum fun org

1109
00:53:00,690 --> 00:52:59,000
oh no Ross and Carrie they show up so

1110
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:00,700
you don't have to

1111
00:53:15,730 --> 00:53:14,050
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1112
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:15,740
zone what a packed episode it was this

1113
00:53:19,660 --> 00:53:17,210
week and as I said at the top of the

1114
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:19,670
show there are even more updates to this

1115
00:53:25,170 --> 00:53:22,640
backstory so many in fact that I'm gonna

1116
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:25,180
add some links to the show notes the

1117
00:53:30,730 --> 00:53:28,730
radio announcer in Melbourne Neil

1118
00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:30,740
Mitchell ran an interview with John

1119
00:53:38,730 --> 00:53:35,030
Cunningham about about the VAX movie and

1120
00:53:41,940 --> 00:53:38,740
John was spat at apparently by the

1121
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:41,950
anti-vaxxers here in Sydney the

1122
00:53:47,530 --> 00:53:44,330
conservative I will say radio

1123
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:47,540
commentator Ray Hadley made a very

1124
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:49,760
strong statement about the anti-vaxxers

1125
00:53:55,090 --> 00:53:51,410
saying he would never have them on his

1126
00:53:56,860 --> 00:53:55,100
program so he told them not to bother

1127
00:53:58,510 --> 00:53:56,870
writing or calling he just won't have

1128
00:54:01,240 --> 00:53:58,520
them on the show which was a very strong

1129
00:54:04,510 --> 00:54:01,250
statement indeed the Sun Herald

1130
00:54:07,150 --> 00:54:04,520
newspaper from Melbourne published a

1131
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:07,160
whole story about the cult of the

1132
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:11,570
anti-vaccination movement including the

1133
00:54:16,810 --> 00:54:13,730
fact that at these screenings of the

1134
00:54:21,730 --> 00:54:16,820
movie VAX one of the books being flogged

1135
00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:21,740
it was Melanie's marvellous measles the

1136
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:27,640
book that encourages children to get

1137
00:54:34,090 --> 00:54:31,610
infected with measles it's something out

1138
00:54:36,790 --> 00:54:34,100
of Monty Python really is well I wish it

1139
00:54:38,890 --> 00:54:36,800
was that funny and finally this has been

1140
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:38,900
brought to my attention this is a press

1141
00:54:45,220 --> 00:54:41,270
release from the honorable Christian

1142
00:54:49,170 --> 00:54:45,230
Porter MP Minister for Social Services

1143
00:54:53,140 --> 00:54:49,180
and the media release says no job no pay

1144
00:54:57,420 --> 00:54:53,150
lifts immunization rates published on

1145
00:55:00,430 --> 00:54:57,430
the 31st of July 2016 and briefly the

1146
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,440
the media release says more than five

1147
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:02,480
thousand seven hundred and thirty-eight

1148
00:55:08,860 --> 00:55:05,450
children whose parents are receiving

1149
00:55:12,220 --> 00:55:08,870
child care payments and were previously

1150
00:55:13,810 --> 00:55:12,230
registered as vaccine objectors have had

1151
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:13,820
their children immunized since the

1152
00:55:18,330 --> 00:55:16,720
launch of the government's no jab no pay

1153
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:18,340
policy

1154
00:55:22,780 --> 00:55:20,210
importantly since the launch of the

1155
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:22,790
campaign on the 1st of January 2016

1156
00:55:28,990 --> 00:55:26,960
more than 148 thousand children who were

1157
00:55:31,090 --> 00:55:29,000
not up to date with their immunizations

1158
00:55:32,890 --> 00:55:31,100
on the Australian childhood immunization

1159
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:32,900
register and now meeting the

1160
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:36,110
requirements the press release goes on

1161
00:55:42,730 --> 00:55:37,490
but I'll link to that in this week's

1162
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:42,740
show notes so we do fear that

1163
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:45,050
impressionable young parents and others

1164
00:55:53,050 --> 00:55:49,370
will be swayed by the utter nonsense

1165
00:55:56,100 --> 00:55:53,060
portrayed in this vac stir movie as you

1166
00:55:59,230 --> 00:55:56,110
heard from the audio clips this whole

1167
00:56:02,140 --> 00:55:59,240
argument put up by the anti-vaxxers that

1168
00:56:04,540 --> 00:56:02,150
they just pro-choice is absurd of course

1169
00:56:08,410 --> 00:56:04,550
they're anti vaccination vehemently anti

1170
00:56:10,540 --> 00:56:08,420
vaccination they they live in the rabbit

1171
00:56:13,870 --> 00:56:10,550
hole of conspiracy theories on top of

1172
00:56:18,370 --> 00:56:13,880
conspiracy theorists and to liken them

1173
00:56:20,350 --> 00:56:18,380
to a cult is actually not unreasonable

1174
00:56:24,070 --> 00:56:20,360
it is not an unreasonable stance to take

1175
00:56:26,190 --> 00:56:24,080
to likin these people to a cult and it

1176
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:26,200
would be easy to get downhearted but

1177
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:29,090
according to that press release the

1178
00:56:33,490 --> 00:56:32,930
immunization rates are up so in your

1179
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:33,500
face

1180
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:36,050
Australian vaccination skeptics Network

1181
00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:39,050
in fact well coming up on next week's

1182
00:56:44,110 --> 00:56:41,630
show a special extended Maynard report

1183
00:56:46,570 --> 00:56:44,120
may not have skeptics in the pub and we

1184
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:46,580
had a great time and Sydney skeptics in

1185
00:56:51,580 --> 00:56:48,650
the pub just a few days ago we had a

1186
00:56:54,130 --> 00:56:51,590
series of psychic tests we had Zener

1187
00:56:55,690 --> 00:56:54,140
cards we had water divining and we had

1188
00:56:59,170 --> 00:56:55,700
predicting the future with heads and

1189
00:57:02,170 --> 00:56:59,180
tails a famous sir or a favorite of pub

1190
00:57:03,970 --> 00:57:02,180
games or party games and there were

1191
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:03,980
prizes along the way and lots of people

1192
00:57:11,650 --> 00:57:08,510
showed up to try their skill at psychic

1193
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:11,660
at the psychic tests anyway Maynard was

1194
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,240
our man on the spot doing running

1195
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:16,640
commentary along the way and talking to

1196
00:57:21,550 --> 00:57:19,130
people involved in doing the tests and

1197
00:57:23,470 --> 00:57:21,560
taking the tests a lot of fun skeptics

1198
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:23,480
in the pub in here in Sydney is a lot of

1199
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:25,970
fun and I encourage everybody who runs

1200
00:57:30,850 --> 00:57:28,400
as skeptics in the pub or who would like

1201
00:57:34,540 --> 00:57:30,860
to have a listen to next week's show to

1202
00:57:36,250 --> 00:57:34,550
see see if you can get some ideas and to

1203
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:36,260
hear some of the fun we have at scale

1204
00:57:40,990 --> 00:57:39,050
Dick's in the pub before I go for those

1205
00:57:43,390 --> 00:57:41,000
people have written in to request it

1206
00:57:46,060 --> 00:57:43,400
let's have another psychic test

1207
00:57:47,710 --> 00:57:46,070
ourselves let's do the dice game and for

1208
00:57:50,460 --> 00:57:47,720
those of you who don't know every now

1209
00:57:52,810 --> 00:57:50,470
and then I'll roll a dice die a dice and

1210
00:57:54,820 --> 00:57:52,820
I can never quite figure out what's the

1211
00:57:59,860 --> 00:57:54,830
plural and the singular I just say dice

1212
00:58:01,870 --> 00:57:59,870
it's easier and you see if you can use

1213
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:01,880
your psychic powers to predict the

1214
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:04,250
outcome I have to here I've got a six

1215
00:58:10,210 --> 00:58:07,760
sided dice die nice and a ten sided

1216
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:10,220
let's start with the six first and since

1217
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:12,770
I'm now using my new fancy shmancy

1218
00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:16,370
recording booth I actually and can't

1219
00:58:20,940 --> 00:58:19,190
really roll the dice on the desk easily

1220
00:58:22,540 --> 00:58:20,950
so I will put it in a little container

1221
00:58:28,350 --> 00:58:22,550
there it goes

1222
00:58:38,250 --> 00:58:31,660
out of six and the dice has come to

1223
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:38,260
number two right I'll take that one out

1224
00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:41,650
put it in the tin sided there we go

1225
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:43,700
here's your chance if you didn't get

1226
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:48,710
number two out of ten predict away and

1227
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:53,770
the dice has come to number two again

1228
00:58:59,170 --> 00:58:56,410
well there you go

1229
00:59:02,110 --> 00:58:59,180
so those people who got both right

1230
00:59:04,750 --> 00:59:02,120
congratulations but for this week

1231
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:04,760
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1232
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:11,450
from Sydney Australia you've been

1233
00:59:17,710 --> 00:59:13,310
listening to the skeptic zone podcast

1234
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:17,720
visit our website at WWF gigs on TV for

1235
00:59:24,340 --> 00:59:20,000
contacts an archive of all episodes

1236
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:24,350
since 2008 and our online store please

1237
00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:26,570
support the skeptic zone by following us

1238
00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:29,870
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1239
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:32,830
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1240
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:35,210
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00:59:39,970 --> 00:59:38,090
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1243
00:59:43,870 --> 00:59:42,260
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1244
00:59:46,359 --> 00:59:43,880
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1245
00:59:47,950 --> 00:59:46,369
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1246
00:59:50,829 --> 00:59:47,960
necessarily those of Australian